Knowns and Unknowns Matter

Moving from Innovation to Transformation Without Going off the Rails

INTRODUCTION:
You’re listening to Tiller-Hewitt’s Leadership Lens Podcast. If you’re a leader - or an aspiring leader - who wants to stay relevant and impactful… YOU’RE IN THE RIGHT PLACE. At Tiller-Hewitt we believe it’s faster, smarter -- and less painful -- to learn from leaders who have walked before us. That’s why we invite top leaders to be our guests on the Leadership Lens. Your host is Tammy Tiller-Hewitt – Founder of Tiller-Hewitt HealthCare Strategies. Let’s jump into the podcast.

TAMMY:
Hey Leaders, you’re about to hear from a gifted and humble Chief Transformation Officer who shares valuable lessons from her journey as a practicing physician to Chief Innovation Officer and now the organization’s first Chief Transformation Officer. She puts a very different spin on thinking outside the proverbial healthcare box because in her mind there is no box, speedbumps perhaps, but really how we must lead differently to be truly transformational.

TAMMY:
Dr. Staci Rogers, welcome to the Leadership Lens podcast. Our guests are in for a treat today because there isn't a person on this line that won't be able to relate and grow from you today.

DR. ROGERS:
Thank you, Tammy. Thank you so much for having me.

TAMMY:
I love your title. I think you have both the sexiest and scariest title in Healthcare. Chief Transformation Officer, which because you're so good, forces you to have a foot in two camps simultaneously… the now and the future. So, can you briefly tell our guests about your journey to this mission-critical role?

DR. ROGERS:
Sure. I started my healthcare journey as an OBGYN. I took over as Medical Director of Women's Services after I had been in practice for several years, and through that started to become more involved with bigger, more system-level projects. I then transitioned to a role as Integration Officer, which really helps connect the dots throughout different lanes or departments within the system. And through that, kind of evolved into this transformational role. Working on big change projects, things that were very future-focused or seemed really kind of out there. But it's been really exciting. No two weeks are the same, no two days are the same, in terms of who I'm working with, what we're working on, or the conversations we're having.

TAMMY:
Yeah, I cannot wait to hear some specific stories that our audience is going to love. I love the Ladybird Johnson quote. Become so wrapped up in something that you forget to be afraid. Is that part of your story or can you describe a time when you were terrified as a leader?

DR. ROGERS:
Absolutely. I took over my first system-level role, which was as Integration Officer in January of 2019. So, I was still very much learning and getting my feet wet, building my team and my network when COVID hit in March of 2020. And at that time, myself and my partner physician leader were asked to go into full-time administrative roles to help support the system through the pandemic. And so, I left what I was competent and confident in practicing as an OBGYN to step into full-time leadership or administrative role and that was so scary. I felt like I didn't know what I was doing, but we were also dealing with something unprecedented in terms of the pandemic, where none of us necessarily knew what the next day was going to bring. So, it was a bit of trial by fire.

TAMMY:
So, you literally left practice and went into that role right during COVID.

DR. ROGERS:
Yes.

TAMMY:
Did you have a foot in both camps still? Did you still see some patients while you were doing that?

DR. ROGERS:
So, I had been kind of in a 50/50 role for the year leading up to that. So half time practicing as an OBGYN, half-time in my administrative role as Integration Officer, but as anyone who's tried to juggle multiple roles or half-time jobs like that, you know, it, it doesn't end up being 50/50, it's 75/75 and you know you never quite know which foot is in which camp or what you're supposed to do, focusing on from, from minute to minute. So, in a way, it was refreshing to have one singular focus. But at the same time, it was something that I didn't feel like I had a lot of experience in, so I was learning every day.

TAMMY:
Well, at least you got to pave the way, right? You weren't following someone else and trying to do it like they did it or how they trained you, you were literally coming up with best practices. And I know you're like this lifelong learner. Every time we talk, you will have just attended, become certified, or completed a course, I know that feeds that part of your personality. Can you talk about any of the courses that you've taken that have helped you, or at least opened your eyes to see things from the outside in?

DR. ROGERS:
Sure. Absolutely. And I think we all have to, especially in health care right now, adopt that learning mentality, whether you're clinical operational, financial, whatever your lane, just because the pace of change right now is insane. We know that scientific or medical information doubling about every 70 days, there's no way you can keep up with that. So, learning from others, in my opinion, is key. One of the recent experiences that I've had where I learned a lot just in how to tackle some of those challenges, or those changes, was from a conference that had nothing to do with health care. It was a change in transformation conference across industries, with participants from all over the world and it was great just to hear how they are bringing their teams together to tackle complex problems and challenges; how they're supporting learning and change communication within their own industries, within their own companies. And at times it was really validating because we're all dealing with some of the same challenges, but it was really refreshing to get out of the healthcare lane and hear how others are tackling those challenges.

TAMMY:
I love it. I think more leaders need to look outside of healthcare for ideas and stop thinking that we have the best practice and everything that's impossible. So, I love hearing that and I remember you talking about a course that you took on being a futurist or tell me more about that.

DR. ROGERS:
I took a course on scenario-based planning and looking at it from a very future focus lens. A lot of healthcare organizations, when we think about future projects or our strategy, we think 3 to 5 years in the future. This course was really about looking 20-plus years in the future and wrapping your head around what are all the possibilities. You're not trying to predict the future or forecast it, but you're just trying to get in that mindset, What could the future look like? And then think if that's what the future looks like, what is our industry need to look like to exist in that future? And as you start to think through all the different possibilities and think through how your organization might look in those different possibilities, then you can start to tease out okay, these are the things that we can do today. These are the capabilities that we need. These are the team members that we need to help us be successful, regardless of which of those future possibilities actually comes to fruition. So, it was just a really cool different way of thinking about it too, really try to hone in on what are some of those foundational capabilities or things that we can be planning for now.

TAMMY:
Yeah, that's so fascinating. The whole mentality of the way you think, has that changed anything and even from a personal perspective on how you think?

DR. ROGERS:
I think it just forces you to look at things with a little bit different perspective. And one thing that it has changed for me in terms of how I look at problems or help teams think through solving complex problems is just asking more questions, and helping to guide them to not just tackle the problem that's here and now in front of us, but ok, we know we're going to tackle that, but what about this? How would you react to this? What if five years from now this happens? And so, it's just asking more questions to help hone in or refine the best solution.

TAMMY:
I love it. Well, my next question was going to be, how do you continue to make the team aligned and focused? So, was or is that how you would answer that or do you have more to help other leaders?
 

DR. ROGERS:
I think two things that are really important when we are developing or putting together a team to tackle a complex problem or just think about our strategy, future projects that we might encounter. Being really intentional about who's on the team is the first step. And sometimes we can get really focused on different titles or different lanes, and that's important. You want all the right perspectives on your team, but it's also just as important to get the right mindset on the team. People that are willing to think differently to step outside the box to challenge. We say a lot in some of our team meetings that conflict is good, or challenging is good. It's meant to help us get to a better solution or make sure that we've got everything out on the table. So, I think just being really intentional and inclusive about who's on the team is just as important as the work you're doing once you get that team assembled.

TAMMY:
That's good. Well, let's back up to your journey. Clearly, you wanted to be a doctor. You went to, you endured medical school and beyond, but did you know that you wanted to be a leader or be in a leadership role eventually?

DR. ROGERS:
No, I didn't. I actually came by it a little bit by accident. In my first leadership role, I've been in practice for a few years and the Chair of the Department role came up, and it was my group's turn to nominate somebody into that role. I was the newest member of the group and so drew the short straw if you will. But soon found that I just really enjoyed the problem solving, the ability to interact with different groups within our department. I had a great partner/nurse leader that was the Director of our service line at the time, and we just worked really well together and continued to grow in that role.

TAMMY:
Wow. So, would you say there was a pivotal point in your career?

DR. ROGERS:
Not necessarily. I feel like my role and my journey are still pivoting. My role is new to our organization. So, I'm the first transformation officer. I've been in the role for about 2.5 years and it's still evolving. But that's part of the challenge with the role, but it's also part of the fun, right? And so, I don't know that I've had that huge pivotal role where I would say, yup, this is it, this is what set me on my trajectory because, in a way, I'm still trying to figure that out “What's next?”

TAMMY:
That's kind of good. I mean, talk about a transformational mindset. It's even applying to your journey and to your role, you get it like, if I stay here, it's no longer transformational, right? It's stationary, you're done. Yeah, that's good. I don't even know if you realize that, from a listener's perspective, it just validates your role and your mindset and mentality around it. I love that.

Well, let's talk about leadership challenges. What do you think are the top leadership challenges today, both professionally and organizationally? And then how do you deal with those challenges?

DR. ROGERS:
I think if we're talking specifically about healthcare, I think one of the challenges that I continually hear from leaders within our own organization that we are tackling, but also across the healthcare industry, is the pace of change is huge. How do we keep up with all the new things, whether it's technology, new clinical therapy treatment? It's really important to have that learning mindset and make sure that we are not just learning within our organizations but learning from others. And then communication, how do we make sure that we're not learning or acquiring that new information, solving problems in a vacuum? How do we make sure that other members of our organization feel informed and in the know but not overwhelmed?

That's a really fine line and something that we don't have it all figured out, but we're trying, we're investigating. You know, keeping people informed with enough so that they feel like they're aligned, they understand the direction of the organization, what's happening around them, what it means to them, but we're not overburdening them with details or too much information where they feel like, the pace of change internally is too much.

TAMMY:
What do you think are the warning signs of when an organization is getting really close to going off the tracks?

DR. ROGERS:
I think it's listening. This isn't the warning sign. This is one of the, how do you figure it out? It's listening to your people and understanding what they're telling you. We don't want to be reactive. Change is hard regardless of what you're doing, small change or big change. So you're always going to get some of that resistance or pushback. It's important to dig in and understand the why. Why is there that resistance? Then if it's more than just “change is hard” type of resistance, really being willing to pause and say OK, are we doing too much? Are we going too fast? What's causing this resistance? And how do we need to pivot? Doesn't mean we need to stop and not do it, but listening to our people, understanding what's causing the angst, and then pivoting or addressing it.

TAMMY:
So, you think that by not doing that, that would start causing an organization to go off track?

DR. ROGERS:
Yes, not listening. And I think the other thing that can cause us to go off track is taking on too much. You know, there's so many things that we could be doing right now to change our organization to react to the landscape. You know, we've had such focus and agility during the pandemic, but there was also that burning urgency to carry out all of those things. The challenge now is how do we keep that same focus and agility but understand that we can't have that same sense of urgency at all times. We're going to burn through our people and our teams. So how do we narrow the funnel, focus on those few top priorities, but get them across the finish line so that then we can move on to the next. So a smaller set of priorities done really well and then the ability to move on. I think one of our biggest challenges or abilities to go off the rails, as you said, is taking on too much at the same time and not having all the resources to carry it out or do it well.

TAMMY:
Yeah, I think some leaders think if they say no to something that that's somehow saying that they're incompetent or the organization will get left behind. But I like what you say by taking on too much, you burn out everyone and then you have nothing. So, what would you say is one key tactic that should be focused on to transform healthcare, and your thoughts around how to tackle that?

DR. ROGERS:
Sure, so one thing that we are doing within our organization right now or looking at differently as well as multiple other organizations and healthcare companies across the industry is the idea of collaboration or partnerships. I think pre-pandemic health systems or healthcare companies operated as independent silos. And you may have some overlap or some collaboration here or there, but it definitely wasn't the norm. I think the pandemic caused us to see the world a little bit differently in multiple areas. But in terms of collaboration, we all had to work together to take care of our patients, to get the latest and greatest technologies, best practices, and what have you. And so, we've started to carry that through and take a more regional, or at times even national perspective, on how we're caring for patients, how we're tackling problems. So, collaboration with other health systems, with other healthcare companies, is I think going to be key to the success of our industry moving forward.

TAMMY:
Well, I do agree with you during COVID we saw collaboration like never before and you know there was clearly a singular focus going on and opened people's eyes to say this really can happen Is there anything specific, like warning signs when people are looking for collaborative partners, the do’s and the don'ts, because I know that you have a lot of experience in that department?

DR. ROGERS:
Sure. I think it, it all starts with trust. It's making sure that everyone is coming to the table openly and transparently. And then just being really crystal clear from the beginning what are you here for? What are the goals? What's the vision of the particular collaboration?

A couple of examples that I can give, we recently pulled together a group of healthcare executives or senior leaders from multiple different health systems in our region. So, there were eight health systems represented. Just for a day of conversation. Building relationships, having conversation around shared challenges, lessons learned, best practices, and really there were no formal to-dos or goals of that conversation other than just that shared learning. So that was one example, and we were really clear about that upfront, come and be willing to share your successes, but also some of your failures so that we all can learn from each other.

Another example would be any collaboration that we are doing around care or formal partnership relationship to care for a population of patients. Really making sure that we are aligned on the goals and the desired outcomes from the very beginning.

TAMMY:
Do you think that would have changed it in a scenario we won't necessarily talk about, but, do you think that would have changed the outcome of some partnerships that didn't have the ending that you hoped for?

DR. ROGERS:
You know, I don't, I don't know. And I suspect that you're referencing our recent collaboration around pediatric care in our region. We had originally set off down a particular path and one of the other health systems that we were working with really made a right-turn pivot from our original conversations and goals. But, you know, we were very intentional during that project of aligning on our vision, our how do we know we have succeeded? How will we know we failed? Really thinking through it. And so really our entire team was just blindsided by the way that that collaboration ended. But I can say that I'm super proud of the way that our team has refocused, come together, and now we're off in a different direction.

TAMMY:
Well, what you're really doing is you're walking the talk, you're not just talking about this, you went through this experience that you were so blindsided in a partnership that you thought was going one direction and went another at the 11th hour. But I think, because you built this culture that you've described within your organization, you really put it to the test and you got the first-place trophy because you really lived it, breathed it, and showed that it can be done.

DR. ROGERS:
Absolutely. We don't, we don't have the trophy yet. We're still very much working towards it. But at the same time, I think our team has maintained that alignment and that drive to carry out the vision that we set out to at the very beginning. And so, I think that, you know, just being really clear and intentional about what we're trying to accomplish helps when you hit those speed bumps or those hard right turns to say, OK, I understand the team understands where we're trying to go. We're just now going to have to take a different path.

TAMMY:
But I've seen during acquisitions and mergers, collaborations, I've seen organizations implode. But you guys stayed steady and because there's such a strong foundation there, built on all the things you described today that it didn't cause your organization to implode, and everybody start jumping ship. You guys stayed rock steady.

That's why I can't wait to see how this next collaboration goes and read your book and the case studies that you're going to create because of it. So, congratulations on that.

And for our listeners, you can follow the organization and see what's going on and into infinity and beyond, and you'll see that there was great leadership behind the curtain on that one.

Well, this has been fascinating and so insightful for me and our listeners because there's so much around transformation and just staying cutting edge at the same time you're trying to lead your organization and it's great to have one person or have a leadership team that gets it that if you've been able to transcend the entire organization and build a culture around this, which I hope all of our listeners understand, first of all, the hard work that that takes but understand, for those who haven't been through it, that this is what it takes to have a successful transformation year over year, over year. So, this has been so fascinating.

But before we end, I always love to wrap up with a few rapid-fire questions. So, you ready for a fast five-round?

DR. ROGERS:
Absolutely.

TAMMY:
All right. Number one. What is your favorite leadership or fun quote?

DR. ROGERS:
From a leadership quote perspective. It's Brene’ Brown. Clarity is kind.

TAMMY:
What's your biggest leadership pet peeve

DR. ROGERS:
When people say we do it this way because that's the way we've always done it. From a transformation perspective, that's absolutely my biggest pet peeve.

TAMMY:
Ok so when looking for a new team member, what is the number one, or at least the first quality you look for, or leader should be looking for?

DR. ROGERS:
I really look for positive attitude and a willingness to learn. I don't want somebody on my team that knows it all, but is willing to continually learn new skills, learn new information and evolve.

TAMMY:
OK. What was your proudest moment professionally last year over the past year?

DR. ROGERS:
Definitely the work that our team has done around the pediatric project.

TAMMY:
All right. And based on your years of experience, whether it's as a practicing physician or beyond, what is one word or one piece of advice you would now give to your younger self?

DR. ROGERS:
Give yourself some grace. It's ok to make mistakes. It's ok to say no. And you don't have to be perfect.

TAMMY:
Oh, there you go. Well, I'm sure that set a few leaders free hearing that. Well, Staci, thank you so much for your time and insight today and we really appreciate you being a guest on the Leadership Lens podcast.

DR. ROGERS:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.

CLOSING:
Tiller-Hewitt works with leaders who want to consistently deliver strategic growth and measurable results. The organization is recognized as the leading experts in strategic growth, network integrity, and physician engagement. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Leadership Lens. For more leadership resources and strategic growth solutions, visit tillerhewitt.com.